Manish Jain (Interviewer)- Hello everyone. I am Manish Jain, senior segment manager, Lubrizol Advanced Materials India Private Limited. I welcome you all to FlowGuard’s very own talk show Beyond Plumbing. In this talk show, we invite industry experts to share their views on various aspects of plumbing. Today we have with us the principal consultant and managing director of Krim Engineering Services, Private Limited. Mr. Mukesh Asija, welcome to the talk show.

Mukesh Asija (Guest)- Thank you, Manish.

Manish Jain - Krim Engineering Services Private Ltd, popularly known as krimens, is a MEP Building Service Design Consultancy Group based out of New Delhi. Mr. Mukesh Asija, graduated from BITS Pilani in civil engineering and did his masters in civil engineering from University of Delhi. He has over 40 years of experience in conceptualizing, designing, coordinating services of various types of projects in India and abroad. His professional interest focuses on conservation of water, energy and recycling of resources. Mentoring young engineers and architects is his passion. Today's topic is plumbing in modern buildings. We'd like to hear your work on plumbing in modern buildings.

Mukesh Asija - Basically plumbing is the result of the or the necessity of the urbanization.

Manish Jain - Very True.

Mukesh Asija - Urbanization has you know taken us away from the nature so that’s how the need from the need for the plumbing came up. It started as a craft, but over a period of time it has evolved into a full fledged engineering with lot of plumbing phenomenals, having a scientifical explanations. Earlier these things were passed down from one generation of plumbers to next generation of plumbers. But now these topics, the scientific research and the hydraulics behind it. Everything is taught in the classroom also.

Manish Jain - Very true sir. So when we talk about you talked about plumbing in older days. So we all know that plumbing has always been a part of our civilization. We've seen plumbing as old as in the Indus Valley civilization in 2700 B.C.. So with all this modern day buildings, there has been a lot of innovation and FlowGuard brings to the table a lot of innovations. So we'd like to hear the challenges you have faced in modern buildings and how have you overcome that?

Mukesh Asija - See, the challenges basically are mostly related to users expectations, but at the same time, the environmental impact of meeting those users expectations. Many companies, many manufacturers, including Lubrizol, has done great work in bringing out products which are manufactured in a sustainable system environmental friendly, also having a long service life.

Manish Jain - True.

Mukesh Asija - Which is especially in case of plastics, we have to be more concerned about this aspect.

Manish Jain - Very True.

Mukesh Asija - And then the ease of assembling at site and installation.

Manish Jain - Very True.

Mukesh Asija - So this is the areas where companies like Lubrizol and a few others in the world have done great work in the profession.

Manish Jain - Very True.

Mukesh Asija - And I hope these companies, including your company Lubrizol, would be more transparent in sharing with the people what you are doing about the environment.

Manish Jain - Very True.

Mukesh Asija - How your you are improving your processes which are, you know, mitigating the environmental damages, which are normally there in the manufacturing systems.

Manish Jain - Yes sir. Thank you. Very good insights. In fact, when you talk about sustainability, FlowGuard is one of the first plastic piping to have received certification from GRIHA for the green building product. We’ve also got certification from ASSOCHAM. We are also certified for LEED. FlowGuard is one of those products which has the lowest carbon footprint because it's more of natural resource. So at FlowGuard we have been innovating and we trust, you know, you would have found the products, as you pointed out, on qualities of lines - long-life, durability, smoothness, ease of no friction loss. So, All these properties come along with the product. Plumbing has been integral part of humankind and traces of plumbing can be seen as old as the Indus Valley civilization in 2700 B.C.. Taking a clue, Sir, from plumbing in those days to plumbing in modern buildings, how do you see the evolution?

Mukesh Asija - Manish, the times you are talking of, plumbing used to be a craft.

Manish Jain - True.

Mukesh Asija - The concepts were passed down from one generation of plumbers to next generation. But with the urbanization, the plumbing has become much more complicated. The concept that if there is a pipe, water will flow is not the only concept. We have gone much beyond that. Now the focus is on the right sizing of the pipes.

Manish Jain - True.

Mukesh Asija - Second, how the pipe behaves whether it is suitable for the quality of liquid or water. It is meant for transporting that liquid is yet suitable or not how it would react.

Manish Jain - True.

Mukesh Asija - To that liquid with which it is transporting and then the material of the pipe piping system itself. What is the good service life of that piping system. Not only that, how environmental friendly the materials are, which are used in the manufacturing of those piping systems, whether they are doing any irrepairable damage to the environment.

Manish Jain - Correct.

Mukesh Asija - Materials, use of the materials as well as the manufacturing process. So all these things have become integral part of the plumbing system, the entire gambit. What kind of friction these pipes are offering, how or if I use a particular material and I compare it with the other material in which material I will get more smoothness. So that my friction loss is less. When my friction loss is less, my energy consumption is less. True. so it’s a for at every aspect, I am doing something which goes well with the environment.

Manish Jain - Very true sir, thank you sir, and I 100% agree with what you said. Today, evolution of materials, the quality of material. That's where the FlowGuard has innovated and brought in a material which meets all the criterias - good smoothness, which means lower energy for pumping. When we talk about sustainability, we are talking about low use of natural resources. Today FlowGuard is certified by GRIHA, by ASSOCHAM as green building products. And today when we talk about various other aspects in terms how evolution from metal to plastics have happened. Today, FlowGuard has become the first choice of piping materials and true very true sir, plumbing has become complex. So taking a clue from here, what are the challenges you see in this industry today?

Mukesh Asija - Before I answer your question on your previous in which you have explained about the FlowGuard, I would suggest that companies like Lubrizol and other responsible manufacturing companies, they should be bit more open.

Manish Jain - True.

Mukesh Asija - about the environmental issues.

Manish Jain - Very correct sir.

Mukesh Asija - About the materials, as well as their manufacturing process

Manish Jain - Very true.

Mukesh Asija - Now coming to the challenges.

Manish Jain - Yes.

Mukesh Asija - The main challenge which we face in the modern plumbing is the see there is a plumbing what you see it can be divided into two things, one segment- What one part of the plumbing is, we call it behind the wall. Another part of plumbing is, front of the wall.

Manish Jain - Correct sir.

Mukesh Asija - So that wall in between.

Manish Jain - Yes.

Mukesh Asija - It is becoming bit thicker and that is my major concern. So what is happening, the behind the wall systems materials they have their positive attributes, the gadgets, the faucets which are in front of the wall, they have their own positive attributes, but somewhere there is a disconnect.

Manish Jain - Correct.

Mukesh Asija - So that is a major challenge and because of this mismatch, many a times the end user is not able to enjoy the benefits of those positive attributes.

Manish Jain - Okay.

Mukesh Asija - Second major challenge is industry, as said, is moving at a very fast pace.

Manish Jain - Very correct.

Mukesh Asija - In bringing out new systems more environmental friendly, more user friendly. But in as it is, the plumbing is a part of the entire construction and development systems. So there are certain codes and regulations.

Manish Jain - Correct.

Mukesh Asija - So the entire construction and the urban planning has to go to through those regulatory.

Manish Jain - Regulations.

Mukesh Asija - To meet those regulations. But somehow, I find those codes and regulations are not getting updated at the same pace as the industry is turning out better and better products.

Manish Jain - Very true.

Mukesh Asija - So they are the problems.

Manish Jain - Very true.

Mukesh Asija - So adoption of those new systems take more time.

Manish Jain - Very correct.

Mukesh Asija - And of course, there is another challenge, it is the shortage of the skilled manpower.

Manish Jain - Very correct sir.

Mukesh Asija - Whatever, good systems, materials you introduced in the market. But if you don't have the skilled manforce to implement it in the proper way, you won't be able to reap the benefits of it.

Manish Jain - Very correct sir.

Mukesh Asija - So these are the challenges which are to be addressed, addressed by manufacturers and by the designers and other stakeholders.

Manish Jain - Very correct sir. So taking, getting back to your comment on more transparency needed in the industry here, I'd like to share FlowGuard is one of the first companies to have done the lifecycle analysis of the product. And this lifecycle analysis helps the user to know what is the amount of energy required for manufacturing, what is the raw material, carbon footprint and so on and so forth. So this is something which FlowGuard innovates your points on plumber training are very vital because even the best system, if not installed properly, would lead to failures. And this is where, you know, FlowGuard that's Lubrizol. We have been doing plumber training program since the time we came into India in 1998. As a matter of fact, we would have trained more than three lakh plumbers till date. Currently we are running. We have two ways which we are training plumbers. We have one is the app based training where plumber gets to know and enhances knowledge on various piping systems and installations of FlowGuard. So this way the plumber is more skilled, more equipped, and is more customer friendly also. Secondly, we have the plumber paatshaala So when we talk today, we are having workshops in various parts of the country. So as a mandate from our organization and as a corporate social responsibility, we conduct ten sessions every month throughout the country.

Mukesh Asija - So Manish, I compliment Lubrizol and FlowGuard for this steps which you have taken for the benefit of, for the entire plumbing fraternity. And I'm sure that your company as well as other players in the field, would also keep on, you know, heading keep on taking such kind of steps in future.

Manish Jain - True.

Mukesh Asija - Which will you know for the benefit of everyone.

Manish Jain - Sure sir.

Mukesh Asija - end-user of course, he’s paying for the product, so he should get the maximum benefit out of all these steps.

Manish Jain - Very true sir. Sir the last point you referred was updation of codes, changing with the pace of the change in the industry. And I would like to inform you that Lubrizol and its manufacturing partners are interacting closely with the code bodies. And for example, you know, we are members of some of the committees at the BIS (Bureau of Indian Standards) and we have been instrumental in working closely with them to formulate and update codes. Example is 15778 hot and cold water plumbing systems. So that is one.

Mukesh Asija - That’s great Manish. But my request is that you will have to be more proactive in on this regard.

Manish Jain - Very true sir. Taking a clue from what you said earlier, sir, you talked about more coordination between design and execution. You talked about manufactures. What’s your advice for plumbers as well sir?

Mukesh Asija - See as far as the plumbers are concerned, we as a society shall give them due respect socially as well as in monitory terms. In many Western countries, plumbers are paid handsomely.

Manish Jain - Very True sir.

Mukesh Asija - And as I understand in some countries their remunerations are next only to cosmetic surgeons.

Manish Jain - Very True.

Mukesh Asija - So a plumber should feel proud of being a plumber.

Manish Jain - True.

Mukesh Asija - And that will come if you empower them with the digital skills.

Manish Jain - True.

Mukesh Asija - Apart from the craft skills which he is supposed to have. so, you will have to skill them digitally also.

Manish Jain - Correct.

Mukesh Asija - And then there should be industry should take an initiative in, you know, I should not say uniform, but having a dress code for them and we should have some really good conveniently carrying tool kits for them.

Manish Jain - Very True.

Mukesh Asija - So this also the plumbing industry specially the manufacturing sector should take this as a social responsibility.

Manish Jain - Sure.

Mukesh Asija - Right now, what happens? A plumber, when he goes on a job for attending any maintanace thing, he just carries one tool with him and does everything with that. And that spoils the whole thing.

Manish Jain - Correct sir.

Mukesh Asija - Just with one plier he is trying to do everything and it ends up messing up expensive fixtures.

Manish Jain - True.

Mukesh Asija - Pipes leaving marks over there and sometime damaging.

Manish Jain - Very True.

Mukesh Asija - Damaging beyond repair because he's not carrying the complete tools with him.

Manish Jain - Very true.

Mukesh Asija - Because he's ashamed of being a plumber. But if you are paying him, you are recognizing him as okay I’ll just compare, see plumber, you know what plumber is doing for you, he's taking care of your hygiene. And hygiene means health.

Manish Jain - Very True.

Mukesh Asija - So what kind of respect you give to a paramedic when you go to a laboratory for giving your sample or when you enter an x-ray room. So what kind of respect? So these people should also get same kind of respects.

Manish Jain - Very true.

Mukesh Asija - They are not engineers. But they are very important for your hygiene leading to your health.

Manish Jain - Very true.

Mukesh Asija - So that kind of social change we have to bring we have to, you know, bring a change in their lifestyle so that they continue with this profession, but with dignity and with their pride.

Manish Jain - Very true. I 100% agree and this is where Lubrizol’s Digital Initiative of Plumber ka saathi is trying to empower them by giving them those soft skills, the installation techniques, giving them a wider knowledge and making them more empowered so that, you know, they can be better at their work, plus they can also be much better socially acceptable and hence, you know, the their value also increases as a corporate social responsibility. We run plumber training programs and we do many other things as I explained further, so I think so of your advice, well taken and I think so this is what the industry also should be looking at to bring in more respect for the plumbers, because they are the people who do the right installation. Moving ahead, sir. Sir what's your vision for future plumbing?

Mukesh Asija - What I see, at present, when we talk of good plumbing, we try to design and install the at least the back of the wall systems in such a way that they are easily accessible for any maintenance or replacement. But that means at the designing stage a lot of coordination with the architects.

Manish Jain - Correct.

Mukesh Asija - Then space. Space gets waste, an engineer wants a particular space architect or interior designer is not able to give that much of space.

Manish Jain - Very correct.

Mukesh Asija - So there is always a tussle, takes time. some time, you end up having spaces but which are not enough and the workmanship suffer. So, I in my view the next level of plumbing is where we produce materials of quality and strength and lifespan also, which are, you know, as the lifespan of a concrete or a masonary work so that these are embedded within the concrete.

Manish Jain - Very true.

Mukesh Asija - So wherever you have to make a connection, you just leave TF from there and forget about whatever has gone. But that will come only when the proven technologies and proven materials are available off the shelf.

Manish Jain - Very correct.

Mukesh Asija - And the consumers confidence is there. So it is the industry's responsibility to prove this on the ground that this is possible.

Mukesh Asija - You will have to take up some pilot projects on this and see the results and then share it with the entire fraternity.

Manish Jain - Sure. I think so very valid points for the future. And here I’d like to state that sir, when we talk about FlowGuard, FlowGuard products are designed for the service life of 50 years. And as a matter of fact, you know, we have been into existence for the last 70 years. We have installations which are 70 years old and doing good. We meet all these criterias. In fact, you know, I call our product FlowGuard as the green technology for the future because of its low carbon footprint, low use of natural resource and so on and so forth. So I think so, a very valid point sir.

FlowChat - The Rapid Fire Round

Manish Jain - Let's start the FlowChat The Rapid Fire Round.

Mukesh Asija - So you want to add some fun in these video?

Manish Jain - Yes sir, surely. So the first question to you is when we talk about potable water, which piping material comes to your mind?

Mukesh Asija - CPVC.

Manish Jain - When we talk about CPVC, what brand comes to your mind?

Mukesh Asija - FlowGuard Plus, by Lubrizol. But let me add something over here.

Manish Jain - Sure.

Mukesh Asija - Why am I saying FlowGuard Plus by Lubrizol or Lubrizol as the supplier of the raw material for CPVC, because Lubrizol was the first company in India who bring precompounded CPVC material and that also was given to the licensed manufacturers that ensure that the product which is available in the market has got a quality control and that make the product acceptable to the entire plumbing industry, private sector as well as public sector and I feel that is the reason why you will find CPVC is now accepted in CPWD also.

Manish Jain - Very True.

Mukesh Asija - It is there in Delhi Schedule of Rates. That means it is used in all over the country.

Manish Jain - All over the country. Yes. Thank you. The next question is work from home or work from office?

Mukesh Asija - You want answer from me or you want what answer my wife would’ve given.

Manish Jain - I would love both.

Mukesh Asija - Okay. I’ll give my answer hybrid. So you will have to ask her if you want her opinion. She will give you different.

Manish Jain - Ok Sir, Sure. The next is voice calls or emails.

Mukesh Asija - Hybrid. Hybrid why Hybrid? voice calls are good, it gives a kind of a personal connect.

Manish Jain - Yes.

Mukesh Asija - There are certain things which you cannot express in words, but while talking you can do that.

Manish Jain - Very True.

Mukesh Asija - You are at ease. But again, something in writing is required when it comes to business, which is which is in writing. Which can go into the records.

Manish Jain - Agreed Sir.

Mukesh Asija - So that's why I'm saying a hybrid.

Manish Jain - Hybrid. When it comes to potable water, health or safety.

Mukesh Asija - Health.

Manish Jain - Okay. When we talk about FlowGuard Plus, we talk about health, safety and durability. All three in one.

Mukesh Asija - That’s great. So there’s a bonus attached with this.

Manish Jain - Yes sir. Now can you give us three tips for homeowners?

Mukesh Asija - The three tips,

1. Number one is durability of the material.
2. Number two, ease of installation.
3. And number three, value for money.

Manish Jain - Thank you. FlowGuard Plus brings to you all these three properties. That is durability, value for money and ease of installation. FlowGuard Plus is available in the Indian markets through our manufacturing partners that is Ashirvad pipes and Prince pipes. To sum it up, can you please share three pro tips for young aspiring engineers and consultants so that they can excel in their careers?

Mukesh Asija - In my opinion, the young engineers who are in to designing and in implementation of the designs, they should understand the science behind the plumbing.

Manish Jain - True.

Mukesh Asija - Second, They should thoroughly deliberate on the suitability and sustainability and the service life of the products they are selecting. And third is, while designing and implementing the system, they should see, The Maintenance and service aspects. These are three very vital aspects which makes a system successful.

Manish Jain - Thank you, Mr. Asija, for coming on our talk show and sharing your valuable experience with us.

Mukesh Asija - Thanks Manish for having me on the show. It was my pleasure too.

Manish Jain - Sure sir. So, friends, on this insightful note, it's time to wrap up this episode. Stay tuned for the next episode of Beyond Plumbing.